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[Music]

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there's a whole fleet of look on the sa

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oh my gosh they're all going against the

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it was basically a cube with inside of

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sphere where the points of the cube

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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so this isn't anything that just is

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limited to the united states it's a

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hi everyone and welcome back to that ufo

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podcast joining me in the middle of

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march for this interview the guest is

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our writer and journalist with articles

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published in many outlets including vice

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and the toronto star i have daniel

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otto's daniel welcome to the podcast hey

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thanks so much for having me

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no it's good to have you on obviously

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we're going to get to your article that

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was written recently and you've written

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a few articles on ufos looking back

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through your website and advice as well

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but i want to know a little bit about

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yourself and to tell the listeners your

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background um so let's dig a little bit

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into that growing up did you have any

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interest in ufos or any sort of related

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phenomenon as a kid or even older

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sort of in passing as a kid you know i

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grew up in the 90s the x-files was on tv

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uh i would read books on the subject a

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little bit as a kid and then have

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nightmares and stay up all night

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but definitely you know i would say

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probably after the age of 10 or 11 the

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interest started it faded for me it

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wasn't something i really uh looked into

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anymore you know now i work as a

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journalist i've been working as a

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journalist for over a decade

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my writings appeared in more than two

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dozen publications including toronto

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star globe and mail slate the diplomat

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etc and it's only been in the past year

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that my interest in the subject is

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renewed and it was specifically because

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in april 2020

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when the pentagon confirmed the veracity

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of some videos that had been previously

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released by the new york times it really

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you know came to my attention and i

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became very interested and i started

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researching the topic and trying to see

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what sort of information i could find

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from the canadian military and

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transportation officials here um you

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know and that's led now to i guess i've

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done nine feature investigations on the

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subject for vice news including my most

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recent one which included

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nearly 300 pages of ufo reports mostly

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from

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airline pilots but also including

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reports from soldiers police officers

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citizens etc

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had you ever had any of your own

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sightings or was it just purely that

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that can a child like interest in the

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subject the x-files and hollywood movies

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and like yours i grew up in the 90s like

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yourself as well so i think that was a

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lot a lot of my background to it

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um

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you know it's one of you asked me that

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yes

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in my very early 20s i went on a road

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trip across the u.s

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and we were camping in death valley

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national park in california and one of

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the nights we were there i saw

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a light

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high up in the sky and bouncing around

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in a way i'd never seen anything move

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before but frankly i actually didn't

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think anything of it um you know if you

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look at a map of where death valley

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california is it's absolutely surrounded

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by american military test ranges so i i

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just figured the americans were testing

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something weird that night um and i

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never thought anything more of it again

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it really was you know 2020 that

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really sparked my interest i went back i

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read the new york times coverage i tried

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to catch up on everything i could before

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i started writing on the subject

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well has it become easier since you

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mentioned the new york times article

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december 2017 and of course the

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follow-ups as a journalist to pitch ufo

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stories have you found that that article

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helped

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yes

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in the united states we're seeing that

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the mainstream media has a growing

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receptiveness to uh you know the

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seriousness of the subject uh you know

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it's gone from new york times in

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december 2017 to now pretty much every

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mainstream uh media outlet in the us has

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done something on the topic

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um in canada it's it's been a bit of a

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challenge in so far as if you look at

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canadian media coverage while mainstream

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canadian media is very happy to

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piggyback on something let's say cnn did

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we're not seeing any we're not really

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seeing much canadian data enter into

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mainstream news coverage here in canada

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i think it's early days yet i think the

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us is a little further advanced than we

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are here in canada i'm not exactly sure

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on the media landscape where you are

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while it's getting easier it's not easy

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you know what i mean

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there's a receptiveness to the topic but

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there's also still a lot of wariness in

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the newsrooms uh in north america um

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but it's changing slowly surely it's

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changing and really we we can thank uh

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the new york times for opening that door

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in late 2017.

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in the uk it's a very slow burn uh in

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terms of the

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the media is reported in the press it's

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usually a joke headliner you know we've

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got some of the red top tabloids who'll

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he'll talk about you know aliens

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abducted me and stole my underwear type

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laugh laugh along kind of headlines it's

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never really reported within the the

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broadsheets in a serious way and sky

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news and bbc tend to tend to avoid the

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subject as well i think the last couple

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of years especially with covid being you

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know the dominant headline it's just

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never had any of the traction that we

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saw pick up in the us translate over

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here unfortunately but hopefully that

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that continues to change and you

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mentioned in canada it's changing um

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probably a little bit further along than

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we are here in the uk

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how are ufos as a subject treated in

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canada you've mentioned the media but

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what about that kind of public

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perception

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well i i can't speak for all of my uh

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compatriots here in canada but i think

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especially with the younger generations

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uh you're seeing a a growing

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receptiveness like i'll give you an

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example my first story on the subject

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was published in vice in uh i guess it

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would have been april april uh 2021

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and you know in the lead up to that i

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was talking to a lot of my friends and

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peers about my you know sort of new

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research interest and you know a lot of

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them thought i'd gone off the deep end a

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little bit like i i've been writing for

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mainstream outlets in you know canada

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for a decade this is this is seen as

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something you know far outside the norm

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you know and i had a few people who were

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sort of questioning my sanity but when i

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started showing them the sorts of

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documents i was pulling through our our

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freedom of information laws here i think

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that really changed uh people's

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perspectives as at least it allowed them

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to be open to the possibility that we're

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dealing with something mysterious here

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um and i i think especially the new york

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times coverage and the videos that they

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released the interviews you know with uh

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fighter pilots and military personnel in

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the us have seen things they're all help

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they're all helping sort of erode the

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stigma i i wouldn't say we've arrived

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where we can just have you know normal

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frank conversations with everyone about

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the subject the way you would about you

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know the weather but um we're we're

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getting there you know attitudes are

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changing it's it's podcasts like yours

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it's coverage like mine it's all of the

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sort of positive you know

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voices that are trying to amplify this

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that are making that difference but you

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know we haven't arrived i don't think as

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a society at a point where you know we

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can

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properly discuss this rationally as a

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scientific issue you know there's still

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a lot of baggage associated with it you

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know things like the x-files are to

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blame it's just not taken seriously it's

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the butt of jokes in a lot of uh you

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know media articles about it but it's

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changing it's changing it's uh it's

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definitely the paradigm is shifting

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outside of the us uk and australia

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canada is the fourth highest demographic

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listenership for myself so thanks and hi

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to any canadian listeners out there as

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well do you think there's anything

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daniel that could open the floodgates in

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terms of that stigma and interest in

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canada or is it a case of the the

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closely follow what's happening in the

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united states given the kind of close

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proximity you have

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yeah i i mean just you know following

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the the us news i think is

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eroding that stigma here in canada uh

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but i think the main thing that we're

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not seeing in canada that you see in the

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united states is

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for the most part our politicians aren't

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speaking openly on the subject you know

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in the u.s you have uh very outspoken

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uh politicians like florida senator

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marco rubio who's going on national tv

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and speaking calmly and rationally about

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the potential threat caused by uap

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that isn't really happening in canada

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except until very recently you know the

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first

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canadian sitting canadian politician in

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decades to make public comments on the

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subject actually did so last week

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this is a member of parliament from the

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province of manitoba which is in central

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canada

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and he sits on a natural resources

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committee his name is larry mcguire and

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last week in committee mr mcguire asked

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natural resources canada a government

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department which also oversees uh some

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nuclear facilities whether or not there

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had been any uap reports at canadian

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nuclear facilities i mean they didn't

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have immediate answers for him but yeah

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he's posed the questions uh both in

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person and in writing and they are going

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to be now obliged the government is

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obliged to respond to him in writing i

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think seeing more stuff like that is

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going to make the difference seeing you

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know

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level-headed public officials

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asking serious questions about the

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subject that's what we need to you know

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help elevate the topic that's happening

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in the united states and i think you

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know those brave politicians uh have

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definitely helped break the ice and you

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know now mr mcguire has in canada and

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hopefully more will follow suit

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yeah very well done to mr maguire that's

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not something i've seen make its way on

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to the my news feeds over here so so

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excellent and that's something i'll have

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00:10:36,550 --> 00:10:34,399
a little look into as well on the

276
00:10:38,230 --> 00:10:36,560
follow-up now you recently published

277
00:10:39,829 --> 00:10:38,240
your article advice it's a fantastic

278
00:10:42,870 --> 00:10:39,839
piece on the canadian government

279
00:10:44,630 --> 00:10:42,880
releasing 20 years worth of ufo files

280
00:10:46,230 --> 00:10:44,640
down to yourself largely because it was

281
00:10:48,470 --> 00:10:46,240
you that kept got the ball rolling on

282
00:10:50,630 --> 00:10:48,480
this over a period of many months i

283
00:10:52,389 --> 00:10:50,640
think about nine months how did this all

284
00:10:53,509 --> 00:10:52,399
come about for you

285
00:10:55,190 --> 00:10:53,519
um

286
00:10:57,350 --> 00:10:55,200
well i actually initially filed my

287
00:10:59,269 --> 00:10:57,360
request um

288
00:11:02,310 --> 00:10:59,279
for this for these reports about a year

289
00:11:04,310 --> 00:11:02,320
ago back in february of 2021

290
00:11:06,710 --> 00:11:04,320
when they got back to me they basically

291
00:11:08,230 --> 00:11:06,720
said that i had filed the request with

292
00:11:10,470 --> 00:11:08,240
uh transport canada which is the

293
00:11:12,389 --> 00:11:10,480
government transportation department

294
00:11:14,310 --> 00:11:12,399
they got back to me and basically said

295
00:11:15,910 --> 00:11:14,320
you know look elsewhere uh i didn't

296
00:11:18,550 --> 00:11:15,920
believe them and i kept

297
00:11:20,630 --> 00:11:18,560
asking uh so through several freedom of

298
00:11:23,590 --> 00:11:20,640
information requests i was able to get

299
00:11:27,269 --> 00:11:23,600
these reports the way i i knew of their

300
00:11:28,389 --> 00:11:27,279
existence was transport canada again the

301
00:11:32,470 --> 00:11:28,399
it's a canadian

302
00:11:35,670 --> 00:11:32,480
federal agency they maintain a online

303
00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:35,680
aviation incident database so i found

304
00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:37,200
this early in my research and this

305
00:11:41,509 --> 00:11:39,040
database is very interesting you know

306
00:11:43,670 --> 00:11:41,519
any kind of incident that happens

307
00:11:45,590 --> 00:11:43,680
with a pilot in canadian skies gets

308
00:11:48,389 --> 00:11:45,600
logged in here that could be a bird

309
00:11:50,550 --> 00:11:48,399
strike a mechanical failure

310
00:11:53,350 --> 00:11:50,560
drunken unruly passengers

311
00:11:55,350 --> 00:11:53,360
and uh ufo reports make it into into

312
00:11:57,030 --> 00:11:55,360
there as well so you know by going

313
00:12:00,230 --> 00:11:57,040
through that database i was able to pull

314
00:12:01,750 --> 00:12:00,240
a couple dozen ufo reports and then

315
00:12:04,310 --> 00:12:01,760
through the freedom of information

316
00:12:07,509 --> 00:12:04,320
system what i was trying to do was find

317
00:12:09,269 --> 00:12:07,519
the source reports that informed those

318
00:12:11,750 --> 00:12:09,279
public-facing ones i was finding and

319
00:12:14,470 --> 00:12:11,760
that's what this newest story consists

320
00:12:16,870 --> 00:12:14,480
of it's uh you know nearly 300 pages of

321
00:12:18,629 --> 00:12:16,880
reports and the majority of those

322
00:12:21,110 --> 00:12:18,639
reports were sent to canadian

323
00:12:24,069 --> 00:12:21,120
transportation officials by a private

324
00:12:26,550 --> 00:12:24,079
company called nav canada which owns and

325
00:12:28,629 --> 00:12:26,560
operates all of the civilian air traffic

326
00:12:30,629 --> 00:12:28,639
control infrastructure here in canada i

327
00:12:32,470 --> 00:12:30,639
think in most countries in the world uh

328
00:12:34,550 --> 00:12:32,480
air traffic control is operated by

329
00:12:37,190 --> 00:12:34,560
usually government agencies here in

330
00:12:39,110 --> 00:12:37,200
canada it's a private company you know

331
00:12:42,230 --> 00:12:39,120
so there i would imagine in terms of

332
00:12:44,470 --> 00:12:42,240
radar data tower recordings etc this

333
00:12:46,310 --> 00:12:44,480
private company probably holds most of

334
00:12:48,629 --> 00:12:46,320
the relevant data for anyone who wants

335
00:12:50,870 --> 00:12:48,639
to research ufos in canada but as a

336
00:12:52,949 --> 00:12:50,880
private entity obviously you can't

337
00:12:54,870 --> 00:12:52,959
target it with freedom of information

338
00:12:57,269 --> 00:12:54,880
requests so you know i was able to

339
00:12:59,590 --> 00:12:57,279
figure out which departments within our

340
00:13:01,110 --> 00:12:59,600
federal transportation department that

341
00:13:03,670 --> 00:13:01,120
the air traffic control company was

342
00:13:06,150 --> 00:13:03,680
speaking to and then by in subsequent

343
00:13:07,990 --> 00:13:06,160
requests that were very specific

344
00:13:09,350 --> 00:13:08,000
targeting the offices i knew that were

345
00:13:11,670 --> 00:13:09,360
communicating with this air traffic

346
00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:11,680
control company that's how i was able to

347
00:13:16,550 --> 00:13:14,720
get these nearly 300 pages of reports

348
00:13:18,550 --> 00:13:16,560
and that's great work and it's tenacious

349
00:13:20,230 --> 00:13:18,560
as well were you able to speak to any of

350
00:13:21,430 --> 00:13:20,240
the the staff who work at air traffic

351
00:13:23,269 --> 00:13:21,440
control or is that something that's

352
00:13:25,030 --> 00:13:23,279
about off limits given it's

353
00:13:25,829 --> 00:13:25,040
not necessarily public facing like you

354
00:13:27,269 --> 00:13:25,839
say

355
00:13:29,430 --> 00:13:27,279
yeah they they

356
00:13:32,389 --> 00:13:29,440
will respond with very generic

357
00:13:34,069 --> 00:13:32,399
statements about you know how they

358
00:13:37,430 --> 00:13:34,079
deal with these reports and forward them

359
00:13:40,230 --> 00:13:37,440
to relevant authorities but i i have yet

360
00:13:42,949 --> 00:13:40,240
to have a good on the record

361
00:13:44,790 --> 00:13:42,959
conversation with anyone there that

362
00:13:47,110 --> 00:13:44,800
could you know give me some inner

363
00:13:48,790 --> 00:13:47,120
workings um if anyone's listening and

364
00:13:50,949 --> 00:13:48,800
they're working in canadian air traffic

365
00:13:52,949 --> 00:13:50,959
control shoot me a line give me a call

366
00:13:56,710 --> 00:13:52,959
always happy to talk on or off the

367
00:13:58,790 --> 00:13:56,720
record uh but as of now no i i have not

368
00:14:00,389 --> 00:13:58,800
been given an on-the-record look at the

369
00:14:02,389 --> 00:14:00,399
inner workings of how they handle this

370
00:14:04,150 --> 00:14:02,399
kind of stuff but you know the document

371
00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:04,160
trail is pretty clear air traffic

372
00:14:08,230 --> 00:14:06,480
control in canada they you know they're

373
00:14:09,509 --> 00:14:08,240
the first point of contact if a pilot

374
00:14:11,030 --> 00:14:09,519
sees something you know they're flying

375
00:14:13,430 --> 00:14:11,040
along their radio

376
00:14:15,110 --> 00:14:13,440
air traffic control air traffic control

377
00:14:16,710 --> 00:14:15,120
then notifies

378
00:14:18,389 --> 00:14:16,720
transport canada the federal

379
00:14:20,629 --> 00:14:18,399
transportation department and they also

380
00:14:23,189 --> 00:14:20,639
notify the canadian air force

381
00:14:26,550 --> 00:14:23,199
specifically a canadian air force unit

382
00:14:29,269 --> 00:14:26,560
that's affiliated with norad norad being

383
00:14:31,110 --> 00:14:29,279
the joint canada u.s air defense system

384
00:14:33,430 --> 00:14:31,120
that's been uh

385
00:14:35,189 --> 00:14:33,440
guarding north american skies since uh

386
00:14:37,269 --> 00:14:35,199
early in the cold war

387
00:14:39,269 --> 00:14:37,279
i think uh my experience with norad

388
00:14:40,870 --> 00:14:39,279
would be using its uh youtube channel to

389
00:14:42,629 --> 00:14:40,880
track santa when it's christmas time

390
00:14:44,310 --> 00:14:42,639
with the kids so it's good to know that

391
00:14:46,629 --> 00:14:44,320
they've got other uses out there as well

392
00:14:48,790 --> 00:14:46,639
you're not based well santa isn't the

393
00:14:51,430 --> 00:14:48,800
only thing norad's tracking um you know

394
00:14:53,350 --> 00:14:51,440
there's evidence in this story for

395
00:14:56,629 --> 00:14:53,360
example uh there was one report

396
00:14:58,790 --> 00:14:56,639
specifically that involved a

397
00:15:00,870 --> 00:14:58,800
a fisherman in the bay of fundy in the

398
00:15:03,509 --> 00:15:00,880
atlantic and a woman at home in nova

399
00:15:05,269 --> 00:15:03,519
scotia nova scotia being our an atlantic

400
00:15:07,670 --> 00:15:05,279
province here in canada

401
00:15:10,389 --> 00:15:07,680
and they both separately reported seeing

402
00:15:12,629 --> 00:15:10,399
something uh glowing in the sky hovering

403
00:15:14,710 --> 00:15:12,639
out over the ocean at night these two

404
00:15:17,430 --> 00:15:14,720
individuals contacted a search and

405
00:15:19,910 --> 00:15:17,440
rescue center in the city of halifax the

406
00:15:21,590 --> 00:15:19,920
search and rescue center then contacted

407
00:15:23,910 --> 00:15:21,600
a norad

408
00:15:26,710 --> 00:15:23,920
affiliated air force squadron that

409
00:15:30,069 --> 00:15:26,720
squadron did conducted playback on norad

410
00:15:32,310 --> 00:15:30,079
radar and observed a radar hits that

411
00:15:35,030 --> 00:15:32,320
correlated almost exactly to the time

412
00:15:37,030 --> 00:15:35,040
and location of the sighting so there's

413
00:15:38,069 --> 00:15:37,040
a nice instance where you can see you

414
00:15:39,430 --> 00:15:38,079
know

415
00:15:42,310 --> 00:15:39,440
civilians see something it's

416
00:15:44,550 --> 00:15:42,320
corroborated by norad radar uh santa

417
00:15:45,670 --> 00:15:44,560
isn't the only thing that nora norad is

418
00:15:47,350 --> 00:15:45,680
tracking

419
00:15:48,949 --> 00:15:47,360
that's good to know and and that was one

420
00:15:50,389 --> 00:15:48,959
of the standouts i think from the the

421
00:15:53,110 --> 00:15:50,399
pile that you went through like you say

422
00:15:55,430 --> 00:15:53,120
there were almost 500 incidents reported

423
00:15:57,910 --> 00:15:55,440
within the 300 pages

424
00:15:59,990 --> 00:15:57,920
outside of anomalous craft because

425
00:16:02,389 --> 00:16:00,000
you've mentioned already that it wasn't

426
00:16:04,470 --> 00:16:02,399
just obviously the potential for ufo on

427
00:16:06,790 --> 00:16:04,480
any unidentified objects there were

428
00:16:08,790 --> 00:16:06,800
drone sightings balloon sightings there

429
00:16:09,910 --> 00:16:08,800
can be bird mass identifications if

430
00:16:11,590 --> 00:16:09,920
anyone's looked at birds through

431
00:16:13,670 --> 00:16:11,600
binoculars at night time they can look a

432
00:16:15,350 --> 00:16:13,680
little bit strange but it's obviously

433
00:16:17,590 --> 00:16:15,360
the anomalous stuff we're looking at was

434
00:16:20,310 --> 00:16:17,600
there much information you came across

435
00:16:22,870 --> 00:16:20,320
that in terms of like hitchhiking effect

436
00:16:26,710 --> 00:16:22,880
time dilation anything outside of it was

437
00:16:28,790 --> 00:16:26,720
anomalous but not necessarily a craft

438
00:16:31,430 --> 00:16:28,800
it's hard to say you know unfortunately

439
00:16:32,790 --> 00:16:31,440
the vast majority of the you know ufo

440
00:16:35,269 --> 00:16:32,800
reports in here

441
00:16:36,790 --> 00:16:35,279
are lights in the sky right

442
00:16:38,790 --> 00:16:36,800
um and

443
00:16:40,629 --> 00:16:38,800
because of the nature of the reporting

444
00:16:42,790 --> 00:16:40,639
structure you know for the most part

445
00:16:44,790 --> 00:16:42,800
they're pretty brief as i mentioned

446
00:16:46,949 --> 00:16:44,800
before the first point of contact is

447
00:16:48,790 --> 00:16:46,959
your traffic control so you know this is

448
00:16:50,949 --> 00:16:48,800
a radio conversation it's not like the

449
00:16:53,110 --> 00:16:50,959
pilots are being sat down and

450
00:16:55,030 --> 00:16:53,120
interviewed about these kinds of things

451
00:16:57,350 --> 00:16:55,040
but you know some of the reports do

452
00:16:58,790 --> 00:16:57,360
describe things that i would say you

453
00:17:01,670 --> 00:16:58,800
know have anomalous flight

454
00:17:02,949 --> 00:17:01,680
characteristics you know things that

455
00:17:05,590 --> 00:17:02,959
sort of suddenly appearing and

456
00:17:06,549 --> 00:17:05,600
disappearing things performing

457
00:17:12,549 --> 00:17:06,559
uh

458
00:17:14,390 --> 00:17:12,559
you know things traveling you know at

459
00:17:15,909 --> 00:17:14,400
estimated speeds you know above the

460
00:17:16,949 --> 00:17:15,919
speed of sound you know there was one

461
00:17:19,270 --> 00:17:16,959
incident

462
00:17:21,029 --> 00:17:19,280
in the report that involved a cargo

463
00:17:23,350 --> 00:17:21,039
flight from

464
00:17:25,029 --> 00:17:23,360
new york to anchorage alaska

465
00:17:26,789 --> 00:17:25,039
and if my memory serves me right this

466
00:17:29,190 --> 00:17:26,799
was in 2018

467
00:17:31,110 --> 00:17:29,200
it encountered all over northern canada

468
00:17:33,590 --> 00:17:31,120
it encountered seeing an object that

469
00:17:36,470 --> 00:17:33,600
they thought was traveling above uh mach

470
00:17:38,870 --> 00:17:36,480
4 and you know and flying in an erratic

471
00:17:40,470 --> 00:17:38,880
way so within within this there are

472
00:17:42,070 --> 00:17:40,480
things that you know suggest some of

473
00:17:44,470 --> 00:17:42,080
these objects

474
00:17:45,909 --> 00:17:44,480
kind of defy conventional explanation

475
00:17:48,549 --> 00:17:45,919
but yeah at the same time you know

476
00:17:50,710 --> 00:17:48,559
there's a lot of misidentification the

477
00:17:53,590 --> 00:17:50,720
reports contain obvious drones and

478
00:17:55,830 --> 00:17:53,600
balloons uh there's for example i think

479
00:17:58,070 --> 00:17:55,840
from early 2019

480
00:17:59,830 --> 00:17:58,080
there were a few uh starlink satellite

481
00:18:02,230 --> 00:17:59,840
sightings that were misidentified as

482
00:18:04,950 --> 00:18:02,240
being ufos which is totally legitimate

483
00:18:07,830 --> 00:18:04,960
you know because back in 2019

484
00:18:10,470 --> 00:18:07,840
that technology was just starting to be

485
00:18:12,710 --> 00:18:10,480
deployed you know into earth orbit so it

486
00:18:14,230 --> 00:18:12,720
wasn't familiar you know to people and i

487
00:18:15,990 --> 00:18:14,240
think anyone seeing that for the very

488
00:18:17,990 --> 00:18:16,000
first time would definitely think they

489
00:18:19,590 --> 00:18:18,000
were seeing some sort of weird ufo i

490
00:18:22,470 --> 00:18:19,600
mean the first time i saw

491
00:18:24,230 --> 00:18:22,480
a startling satellite uh train i was it

492
00:18:25,909 --> 00:18:24,240
took me aback even though i knew what it

493
00:18:27,909 --> 00:18:25,919
was it just looked so surreal when you

494
00:18:29,270 --> 00:18:27,919
see it the first time so you know

495
00:18:31,029 --> 00:18:29,280
there's definitely it's definitely a

496
00:18:33,590 --> 00:18:31,039
mixed bag there's things in these

497
00:18:35,590 --> 00:18:33,600
reports that i think you could probably

498
00:18:37,830 --> 00:18:35,600
easily explain and then there's things

499
00:18:40,470 --> 00:18:37,840
in there that are that definitely are

500
00:18:42,549 --> 00:18:40,480
much more difficult to identify

501
00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:42,559
much like yourself i remember my first

502
00:18:47,350 --> 00:18:45,600
starlink satellite uh experience where i

503
00:18:49,270 --> 00:18:47,360
was coming in from walking the dog and

504
00:18:51,190 --> 00:18:49,280
just over the top of the house a little

505
00:18:52,950 --> 00:18:51,200
light goes past and catches my eye i'm

506
00:18:55,830 --> 00:18:52,960
always looking and another one comes

507
00:18:58,070 --> 00:18:55,840
past a few seconds later and i counted

508
00:18:59,830 --> 00:18:58,080
and at first i wasn't sure but once i

509
00:19:01,669 --> 00:18:59,840
got about halfway through and i'd got my

510
00:19:03,830 --> 00:19:01,679
wife to come out and look it sort of

511
00:19:05,590 --> 00:19:03,840
clicked with me this is going to be elon

512
00:19:06,950 --> 00:19:05,600
musk satellites and obviously like you

513
00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:06,960
say they were hitting the news more and

514
00:19:11,270 --> 00:19:09,200
more and yeah it's pretty incredible

515
00:19:12,470 --> 00:19:11,280
though to see it because they they're

516
00:19:13,990 --> 00:19:12,480
there they're in the sky and if you

517
00:19:16,310 --> 00:19:14,000
don't have that knowledge you're not on

518
00:19:17,510 --> 00:19:16,320
social media and following elon musk and

519
00:19:19,029 --> 00:19:17,520
everything he's doing

520
00:19:20,789 --> 00:19:19,039
like you say you would report it as

521
00:19:23,029 --> 00:19:20,799
something very strange very unusual

522
00:19:25,990 --> 00:19:23,039
which is anyway to see

523
00:19:27,750 --> 00:19:26,000
do you think those sorts of

524
00:19:29,990 --> 00:19:27,760
devices now being in the atmosphere are

525
00:19:32,710 --> 00:19:30,000
going to make it much harder for people

526
00:19:33,430 --> 00:19:32,720
to disseminate true genuine ufo reports

527
00:19:37,750 --> 00:19:33,440
to

528
00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:37,760
high-altitude aircraft or indeed a

529
00:19:40,390 --> 00:19:38,880
satellite

530
00:19:41,750 --> 00:19:40,400
yeah you know that's definitely a

531
00:19:43,909 --> 00:19:41,760
challenge uh

532
00:19:46,230 --> 00:19:43,919
especially the way drone technology is

533
00:19:48,470 --> 00:19:46,240
today you know these things can have

534
00:19:50,549 --> 00:19:48,480
huge ranges and you know travel pretty

535
00:19:53,750 --> 00:19:50,559
fast um

536
00:19:55,909 --> 00:19:53,760
but you know what for me i think is

537
00:19:57,350 --> 00:19:55,919
what i find interesting and compelling

538
00:20:00,310 --> 00:19:57,360
is if you start looking at reports from

539
00:20:02,149 --> 00:20:00,320
let's say 2016 and earlier you know

540
00:20:05,350 --> 00:20:02,159
you're seeing things displaying the same

541
00:20:06,950 --> 00:20:05,360
sort of anomalous flight characteristics

542
00:20:09,190 --> 00:20:06,960
at a time when

543
00:20:11,669 --> 00:20:09,200
that sort of drone technology was not

544
00:20:14,070 --> 00:20:11,679
commercially available you know in

545
00:20:16,149 --> 00:20:14,080
another story i did for example

546
00:20:18,950 --> 00:20:16,159
uh it was a it was a story on

547
00:20:21,029 --> 00:20:18,960
specifically on uh canadian military

548
00:20:23,190 --> 00:20:21,039
sightings settings at canadian military

549
00:20:26,149 --> 00:20:23,200
installations there is one particular

550
00:20:29,510 --> 00:20:26,159
base in ontario called cfb north bay

551
00:20:30,470 --> 00:20:29,520
which has a lot of norad functions

552
00:20:32,549 --> 00:20:30,480
there were

553
00:20:36,549 --> 00:20:32,559
ufo reports from that base involving

554
00:20:38,549 --> 00:20:36,559
multiple witnesses uh in the years 2007

555
00:20:40,789 --> 00:20:38,559
and in 1952

556
00:20:41,990 --> 00:20:40,799
and the report from 1952 involved

557
00:20:44,950 --> 00:20:42,000
something that

558
00:20:46,870 --> 00:20:44,960
uh was even stranger that had more you

559
00:20:49,190 --> 00:20:46,880
know exotic anomalous flight

560
00:20:51,350 --> 00:20:49,200
capabilities and i guess for me seeing

561
00:20:54,710 --> 00:20:51,360
that degree of historical continuity

562
00:20:57,270 --> 00:20:54,720
that you know over 55 you know 55 years

563
00:20:59,190 --> 00:20:57,280
the report from 55 years earlier is the

564
00:21:01,350 --> 00:20:59,200
stranger one suggests to me that you

565
00:21:03,669 --> 00:21:01,360
know a lot of these reports or at least

566
00:21:07,510 --> 00:21:03,679
some of them are not or not drones you

567
00:21:11,669 --> 00:21:07,520
know i i don't think any military had

568
00:21:13,669 --> 00:21:11,679
that kind of capability in 1952 uh if

569
00:21:16,070 --> 00:21:13,679
they did you know i'd love to be proven

570
00:21:17,590 --> 00:21:16,080
wrong but for me just you know the

571
00:21:19,510 --> 00:21:17,600
breadth of the research seeing that

572
00:21:22,070 --> 00:21:19,520
historical continuity decade after

573
00:21:23,669 --> 00:21:22,080
decade where you know there remains a

574
00:21:26,070 --> 00:21:23,679
core nugget of

575
00:21:28,470 --> 00:21:26,080
of reports that are genuinely strange to

576
00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:28,480
me is very very compelling at the same

577
00:21:31,750 --> 00:21:30,480
time i more than recognize i think you

578
00:21:33,510 --> 00:21:31,760
know if you have a thousand different

579
00:21:34,870 --> 00:21:33,520
reports a thousand different people are

580
00:21:37,750 --> 00:21:34,880
probably seeing a thousand different

581
00:21:39,669 --> 00:21:37,760
things but there does seem to be a

582
00:21:42,149 --> 00:21:39,679
persistent small minority of these

583
00:21:43,909 --> 00:21:42,159
reports that just defy conventional

584
00:21:46,549 --> 00:21:43,919
explanation you know and i think for

585
00:21:48,230 --> 00:21:46,559
folks like me and folks like you it's

586
00:21:50,630 --> 00:21:48,240
finding that kind of data and seeing

587
00:21:52,950 --> 00:21:50,640
that kind of data that inspires us to

588
00:21:54,390 --> 00:21:52,960
you know keep digging because if the

589
00:21:57,029 --> 00:21:54,400
only way we're ever going to get even

590
00:21:59,430 --> 00:21:57,039
close to answers is by you know having

591
00:22:00,230 --> 00:21:59,440
more and better data right so

592
00:22:01,590 --> 00:22:00,240
uh

593
00:22:03,750 --> 00:22:01,600
it's definitely

594
00:22:06,149 --> 00:22:03,760
definitely seeing those sorts of report

595
00:22:08,470 --> 00:22:06,159
ports decade after decade for me

596
00:22:09,909 --> 00:22:08,480
suggests that you know it's not always

597
00:22:12,070 --> 00:22:09,919
drones

598
00:22:15,029 --> 00:22:12,080
yeah absolutely you're spot on in terms

599
00:22:17,270 --> 00:22:15,039
of the data we see themes or connections

600
00:22:20,310 --> 00:22:17,280
you know uaps large bodies of water

601
00:22:22,310 --> 00:22:20,320
nuclear materials military bases do you

602
00:22:25,190 --> 00:22:22,320
find any of these correlations in your

603
00:22:27,270 --> 00:22:25,200
research are there any particular areas

604
00:22:29,430 --> 00:22:27,280
over canada where sightings are more

605
00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:29,440
prevalent than others

606
00:22:32,230 --> 00:22:30,240
you know

607
00:22:35,270 --> 00:22:32,240
i i would have to take all the reports i

608
00:22:37,350 --> 00:22:35,280
found and input the gps coordinates and

609
00:22:39,430 --> 00:22:37,360
i mean that that's a stage i have not

610
00:22:42,070 --> 00:22:39,440
yet accomplished one thing i did do by

611
00:22:45,029 --> 00:22:42,080
putting with my most recent story by

612
00:22:47,190 --> 00:22:45,039
including all 290 pages of reports with

613
00:22:49,270 --> 00:22:47,200
the story my hope was that people who

614
00:22:51,190 --> 00:22:49,280
were perhaps more scientifically minded

615
00:22:53,510 --> 00:22:51,200
than me could do some of that

616
00:22:54,510 --> 00:22:53,520
data crunching but that being said you

617
00:22:58,070 --> 00:22:54,520
know i

618
00:23:00,789 --> 00:22:58,080
anecdotally i i can suggest that there

619
00:23:01,990 --> 00:23:00,799
are some areas where we seem to see more

620
00:23:04,789 --> 00:23:02,000
of these things

621
00:23:07,669 --> 00:23:04,799
uh canada's uh atlantic coast for

622
00:23:09,830 --> 00:23:07,679
example has a fair number of reports

623
00:23:12,390 --> 00:23:09,840
there's often some interesting reports

624
00:23:14,070 --> 00:23:12,400
in and around the great lakes

625
00:23:16,470 --> 00:23:14,080
region

626
00:23:19,270 --> 00:23:16,480
i see a fair amount of reports over

627
00:23:21,430 --> 00:23:19,280
canada's prairie provinces saskatchewan

628
00:23:23,270 --> 00:23:21,440
and manitoba and then there's a certain

629
00:23:24,630 --> 00:23:23,280
hot spots in british columbia for

630
00:23:26,950 --> 00:23:24,640
example there's a

631
00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:26,960
a city called a town called williams

632
00:23:30,470 --> 00:23:29,280
lake in central british columbia where

633
00:23:32,950 --> 00:23:30,480
you know i found

634
00:23:35,029 --> 00:23:32,960
a bunch of weird reports so i i can't

635
00:23:37,270 --> 00:23:35,039
say you know with scientific facts these

636
00:23:38,470 --> 00:23:37,280
are the canadian hot spots but

637
00:23:40,870 --> 00:23:38,480
there

638
00:23:42,870 --> 00:23:40,880
seems to be a particular um you know

639
00:23:45,590 --> 00:23:42,880
there seems to be more reports from

640
00:23:47,350 --> 00:23:45,600
certain areas i can say anecdotally

641
00:23:49,669 --> 00:23:47,360
in terms of canadian military

642
00:23:51,430 --> 00:23:49,679
installations

643
00:23:53,269 --> 00:23:51,440
i mean a lot of them have had sightings

644
00:23:55,990 --> 00:23:53,279
you know like over the years not all of

645
00:23:57,990 --> 00:23:56,000
them uh as far as i can tell but a lot

646
00:24:00,630 --> 00:23:58,000
of them have and you know that one

647
00:24:03,190 --> 00:24:00,640
instance north bay uh what i previously

648
00:24:05,430 --> 00:24:03,200
mentioned that had the reports in 1952

649
00:24:07,990 --> 00:24:05,440
and 2007 you know i found that one

650
00:24:10,950 --> 00:24:08,000
particularly interesting because that's

651
00:24:12,470 --> 00:24:10,960
the actual base that's uh where there's

652
00:24:14,390 --> 00:24:12,480
a squadron that's tasked with

653
00:24:16,870 --> 00:24:14,400
identifying everything that's

654
00:24:19,029 --> 00:24:16,880
approaching north america so if like

655
00:24:20,470 --> 00:24:19,039
that that is the you know that's where

656
00:24:22,710 --> 00:24:20,480
they do that that's where they try to

657
00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:22,720
identify all the radar tracks so for me

658
00:24:25,750 --> 00:24:24,480
i found it pretty interesting that at

659
00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:25,760
the base that's supposed to be

660
00:24:29,269 --> 00:24:27,760
identifying things they had two things

661
00:24:31,510 --> 00:24:29,279
show up right over the base that they

662
00:24:32,710 --> 00:24:31,520
could not identify

663
00:24:34,710 --> 00:24:32,720
you've answered one the listener

664
00:24:36,549 --> 00:24:34,720
questions jonathan was asking about

665
00:24:38,390 --> 00:24:36,559
areas of strangeness in canada so that's

666
00:24:39,750 --> 00:24:38,400
a that's a good one so thanks jonathan

667
00:24:42,230 --> 00:24:39,760
your question's been answered within

668
00:24:44,070 --> 00:24:42,240
there um well i can i can answer that

669
00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:44,080
one for jonathan so you know we

670
00:24:48,390 --> 00:24:45,440
mentioned the case

671
00:24:51,350 --> 00:24:48,400
of norad radar corroborating a sighting

672
00:24:53,669 --> 00:24:51,360
over canada's uh over the atlantic that

673
00:24:56,470 --> 00:24:53,679
that was just around the corner from a

674
00:24:59,190 --> 00:24:56,480
place called coal um coal sorry a place

675
00:25:02,230 --> 00:24:59,200
called shag harbor nova scotia and shag

676
00:25:06,070 --> 00:25:02,240
harbor nova scotia in 1967 i think it

677
00:25:08,549 --> 00:25:06,080
was october 1967 was the site of a very

678
00:25:10,950 --> 00:25:08,559
infamous mass sighting where

679
00:25:13,990 --> 00:25:10,960
multiple people witnessed a luminous

680
00:25:16,549 --> 00:25:14,000
object uh disappear into the ocean you

681
00:25:18,549 --> 00:25:16,559
know search and rescue and etc were sent

682
00:25:21,029 --> 00:25:18,559
out to try and find it they never could

683
00:25:23,110 --> 00:25:21,039
and this sighting that uh involved you

684
00:25:25,750 --> 00:25:23,120
know the more contemporary sighting was

685
00:25:27,510 --> 00:25:25,760
just in the same vicinity as that one so

686
00:25:29,590 --> 00:25:27,520
you know perhaps there's there's a hot

687
00:25:31,110 --> 00:25:29,600
spot in the atlantic again this is none

688
00:25:33,990 --> 00:25:31,120
of this is scientific evidence but

689
00:25:36,149 --> 00:25:34,000
anecdotally you know it seems to be uh

690
00:25:37,909 --> 00:25:36,159
certain areas just seem to get sightings

691
00:25:39,430 --> 00:25:37,919
decade after decade

692
00:25:41,510 --> 00:25:39,440
there's always listeners asking how they

693
00:25:43,750 --> 00:25:41,520
can get involved and help out and with

694
00:25:45,590 --> 00:25:43,760
that report now being publicly available

695
00:25:46,549 --> 00:25:45,600
through through yourself and your your

696
00:25:48,070 --> 00:25:46,559
foyers

697
00:25:49,510 --> 00:25:48,080
people can go and do that for you know

698
00:25:51,350 --> 00:25:49,520
and if there's anyone who wants to help

699
00:25:52,870 --> 00:25:51,360
out then you know certainly reach out to

700
00:25:54,230 --> 00:25:52,880
daniel and ask if there's any way they

701
00:25:55,990 --> 00:25:54,240
can go about it but if you want to get

702
00:25:58,070 --> 00:25:56,000
involved in mine through the data if

703
00:26:00,149 --> 00:25:58,080
you've got any programs it can check for

704
00:26:01,669 --> 00:26:00,159
patterns in the data in certain areas

705
00:26:03,430 --> 00:26:01,679
then absolutely go ahead that would be

706
00:26:05,590 --> 00:26:03,440
great even get in touch with myself and

707
00:26:07,909 --> 00:26:05,600
i can point you in the right direction

708
00:26:10,070 --> 00:26:07,919
um the us military and government seem

709
00:26:12,070 --> 00:26:10,080
to be the main keepers of information on

710
00:26:14,230 --> 00:26:12,080
on this subject on a global scale it's

711
00:26:16,230 --> 00:26:14,240
always the us always has been through

712
00:26:18,149 --> 00:26:16,240
since it started back in the late 40s

713
00:26:19,909 --> 00:26:18,159
and when you go through it's they're the

714
00:26:22,549 --> 00:26:19,919
bad guys or the good guys depending what

715
00:26:23,909 --> 00:26:22,559
sega defense you fall down on this um do

716
00:26:26,390 --> 00:26:23,919
you think there's an agreement between

717
00:26:29,430 --> 00:26:26,400
the us and canada and perhaps even other

718
00:26:31,830 --> 00:26:29,440
countries to always share uap related

719
00:26:33,669 --> 00:26:31,840
information with the us

720
00:26:35,430 --> 00:26:33,679
i would ask particularly daniel thinking

721
00:26:38,630 --> 00:26:35,440
you're talking about norad and it's a

722
00:26:41,029 --> 00:26:38,640
joint venture between canada and the us

723
00:26:43,350 --> 00:26:41,039
now when you've got those systems and

724
00:26:46,549 --> 00:26:43,360
there are say there's some particularly

725
00:26:48,710 --> 00:26:46,559
tasty events happen multiple tracks some

726
00:26:51,029 --> 00:26:48,720
incredible data comes in

727
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:51,039
as it's still that joint cooperation or

728
00:26:55,350 --> 00:26:52,480
is it something you feel the us would

729
00:26:57,909 --> 00:26:55,360
take control and strong hold over

730
00:27:00,549 --> 00:26:57,919
ah it depends you know my research in

731
00:27:04,390 --> 00:27:00,559
for other stories has come up with clear

732
00:27:07,269 --> 00:27:04,400
evidence that canada shares data on uap

733
00:27:09,190 --> 00:27:07,279
cases with the united states for example

734
00:27:11,990 --> 00:27:09,200
i found you know reports about you know

735
00:27:14,230 --> 00:27:12,000
so-called ufo incidents being shared

736
00:27:17,669 --> 00:27:14,240
with um you know norad headquarters in

737
00:27:18,830 --> 00:27:17,679
colorado as well as other u.s air force

738
00:27:20,549 --> 00:27:18,840
bases

739
00:27:23,110 --> 00:27:20,559
um

740
00:27:25,510 --> 00:27:23,120
in canada for the most part

741
00:27:27,909 --> 00:27:25,520
the there's little to no follow-up when

742
00:27:29,909 --> 00:27:27,919
it when it comes to uap cases and i

743
00:27:32,950 --> 00:27:29,919
think that's because canada the canadian

744
00:27:35,669 --> 00:27:32,960
military and air force uh don't see this

745
00:27:38,870 --> 00:27:35,679
as a defense issue so you know while

746
00:27:41,590 --> 00:27:38,880
there are robust reporting mechanisms

747
00:27:43,990 --> 00:27:41,600
for documenting these cases

748
00:27:47,110 --> 00:27:44,000
in most cases there's little to no

749
00:27:48,230 --> 00:27:47,120
follow-up except except and this is what

750
00:27:50,149 --> 00:27:48,240
the you know they've told me

751
00:27:53,029 --> 00:27:50,159
specifically except in cases that

752
00:27:55,510 --> 00:27:53,039
involve uh you know credible threats

753
00:27:57,190 --> 00:27:55,520
potential threats or search and rescue

754
00:27:59,029 --> 00:27:57,200
so there's been instances i think there

755
00:28:01,269 --> 00:27:59,039
is one case i found where a woman saw

756
00:28:03,590 --> 00:28:01,279
something go into the ocean and they

757
00:28:05,590 --> 00:28:03,600
they dispatch search and rescue a search

758
00:28:07,510 --> 00:28:05,600
and rescue helicopter there is another

759
00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:07,520
case where something was uh tracked

760
00:28:12,149 --> 00:28:09,120
moving quite quickly towards north

761
00:28:14,230 --> 00:28:12,159
america on norad radar and they

762
00:28:15,110 --> 00:28:14,240
dispatched canadian fighter jets which

763
00:28:17,029 --> 00:28:15,120
couldn't

764
00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:17,039
find anything

765
00:28:23,510 --> 00:28:20,000
it's hard to say if you know the us is

766
00:28:26,549 --> 00:28:23,520
taking the lead on canadian data i don't

767
00:28:29,510 --> 00:28:26,559
have a sense that that's happening you

768
00:28:30,950 --> 00:28:29,520
know the the american bodies that have

769
00:28:33,029 --> 00:28:30,960
been created

770
00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:33,039
to investigate this you know

771
00:28:37,190 --> 00:28:35,760
historically have been through the u.s

772
00:28:40,149 --> 00:28:37,200
navy right

773
00:28:43,350 --> 00:28:40,159
and can canadian data is being sent to

774
00:28:44,350 --> 00:28:43,360
the u.s air force in norad

775
00:28:47,350 --> 00:28:44,360
which

776
00:28:50,389 --> 00:28:47,360
historically have shown less of a

777
00:28:52,630 --> 00:28:50,399
public-facing interest in the subject so

778
00:28:54,630 --> 00:28:52,640
once canadian data gets to the united

779
00:28:57,990 --> 00:28:54,640
states i i can't tell you what's

780
00:29:01,269 --> 00:28:58,000
happening with it i really wish i knew

781
00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:01,279
but i'm not entirely sure

782
00:29:05,430 --> 00:29:03,360
if you know for example if canadian data

783
00:29:07,750 --> 00:29:05,440
goes to the us air force if the u.s air

784
00:29:10,630 --> 00:29:07,760
force would then you know share that

785
00:29:13,269 --> 00:29:10,640
with any you know pentagon ufo

786
00:29:14,549 --> 00:29:13,279
investigation bodies i it's so hard to

787
00:29:16,710 --> 00:29:14,559
say you know

788
00:29:18,549 --> 00:29:16,720
the the reason i've been able to

789
00:29:20,950 --> 00:29:18,559
get so much information out of our

790
00:29:23,269 --> 00:29:20,960
military and government is specifically

791
00:29:25,830 --> 00:29:23,279
because they don't see this as a as a

792
00:29:28,310 --> 00:29:25,840
defense or security issue you know under

793
00:29:30,950 --> 00:29:28,320
our access to information legislation as

794
00:29:33,669 --> 00:29:30,960
it is in most countries anything any

795
00:29:36,149 --> 00:29:33,679
information that has a uh defense or

796
00:29:37,909 --> 00:29:36,159
security nexus can be withheld in the

797
00:29:39,909 --> 00:29:37,919
freedom of information process right on

798
00:29:41,830 --> 00:29:39,919
national security grounds

799
00:29:44,470 --> 00:29:41,840
so in canada because we don't see this

800
00:29:46,710 --> 00:29:44,480
as that issue i'm able to get like all

801
00:29:48,630 --> 00:29:46,720
kinds of reports and all kinds of data

802
00:29:50,789 --> 00:29:48,640
you ask any journalist who's researching

803
00:29:52,870 --> 00:29:50,799
the subject in the united states

804
00:29:54,630 --> 00:29:52,880
while you can get perhaps a politician

805
00:29:57,269 --> 00:29:54,640
to give you an on the record interview

806
00:29:59,590 --> 00:29:57,279
about you know how serious this is in

807
00:30:02,149 --> 00:29:59,600
the u.s it's it's almost impossible to

808
00:30:04,389 --> 00:30:02,159
get high quality case data because it's

809
00:30:07,029 --> 00:30:04,399
all withheld from their foia process on

810
00:30:09,269 --> 00:30:07,039
national security grounds so once those

811
00:30:11,350 --> 00:30:09,279
canadian reports are getting to the u.s

812
00:30:13,350 --> 00:30:11,360
you know i i know that data from some of

813
00:30:14,789 --> 00:30:13,360
them has been sent i i don't know what

814
00:30:16,630 --> 00:30:14,799
the us is doing with it i sure would

815
00:30:18,870 --> 00:30:16,640
like to know though

816
00:30:20,470 --> 00:30:18,880
some really prominent people in various

817
00:30:22,389 --> 00:30:20,480
different fields like ross kultar

818
00:30:24,070 --> 00:30:22,399
prominent australian journalist

819
00:30:25,669 --> 00:30:24,080
uh george knapp obviously a massive

820
00:30:28,710 --> 00:30:25,679
journalist in terms of this subject in

821
00:30:31,510 --> 00:30:28,720
the last 30 or 40 years now avi loeb

822
00:30:33,269 --> 00:30:31,520
noted astrophysicists from harvard are

823
00:30:34,950 --> 00:30:33,279
coming out and they're sharing their

824
00:30:36,630 --> 00:30:34,960
opinions and ideas and we're hearing

825
00:30:39,190 --> 00:30:36,640
terms thrown about now like

826
00:30:41,909 --> 00:30:39,200
extraterrestrial interdimensional time

827
00:30:43,590 --> 00:30:41,919
travel you know future as

828
00:30:45,830 --> 00:30:43,600
different realities being talked about

829
00:30:47,909 --> 00:30:45,840
in a very serious way

830
00:30:49,990 --> 00:30:47,919
as a journalist now digging into this

831
00:30:52,470 --> 00:30:50,000
subject are you starting to form an

832
00:30:55,990 --> 00:30:52,480
opinion on what some of these more

833
00:30:56,870 --> 00:30:56,000
anomalous craft could potentially be

834
00:30:57,909 --> 00:30:56,880
you know

835
00:31:00,789 --> 00:30:57,919
it's

836
00:31:03,430 --> 00:31:00,799
i entertain ideas but for me frankly i'm

837
00:31:05,430 --> 00:31:03,440
very satisfied just to know that there's

838
00:31:07,590 --> 00:31:05,440
a mystery that's alive and well on our

839
00:31:09,350 --> 00:31:07,600
planet you know that we as humans have

840
00:31:11,029 --> 00:31:09,360
not figured everything out and that

841
00:31:14,070 --> 00:31:11,039
we're being confronted with evidence of

842
00:31:15,350 --> 00:31:14,080
something uh you know that does seem

843
00:31:17,029 --> 00:31:15,360
quite

844
00:31:19,110 --> 00:31:17,039
you know different you know different

845
00:31:22,230 --> 00:31:19,120
from our realm of experience

846
00:31:23,750 --> 00:31:22,240
um have i formed specific opinions as to

847
00:31:25,269 --> 00:31:23,760
you know what

848
00:31:27,350 --> 00:31:25,279
these things are i don't know you know

849
00:31:29,110 --> 00:31:27,360
they could be a thousand i thought like

850
00:31:31,350 --> 00:31:29,120
i said a thousand people could be seeing

851
00:31:34,789 --> 00:31:31,360
a thousand different things uh i'm sure

852
00:31:36,470 --> 00:31:34,799
there's no one answer i i think anyone

853
00:31:38,789 --> 00:31:36,480
who thinks you know

854
00:31:40,549 --> 00:31:38,799
earth is alone for harboring life in the

855
00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:40,559
universe is probably

856
00:31:44,310 --> 00:31:43,120
uh naive right you know the

857
00:31:46,630 --> 00:31:44,320
our our

858
00:31:48,789 --> 00:31:46,640
our galaxy contains you know over a

859
00:31:51,269 --> 00:31:48,799
billion stars and there's over

860
00:31:52,070 --> 00:31:51,279
a billion known galaxies in the universe

861
00:31:53,750 --> 00:31:52,080
right

862
00:31:56,230 --> 00:31:53,760
the chances of life being out there are

863
00:31:58,310 --> 00:31:56,240
very high now the other question is is

864
00:32:00,470 --> 00:31:58,320
there you know some life form that's

865
00:32:01,830 --> 00:32:00,480
been able to visit us and have has made

866
00:32:03,509 --> 00:32:01,840
that you know has that kind of

867
00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:03,519
technology i don't know i think the

868
00:32:07,350 --> 00:32:05,840
probability of that's a lot lower but

869
00:32:09,430 --> 00:32:07,360
you know we live in a universe where

870
00:32:10,950 --> 00:32:09,440
anything's possible but for me you know

871
00:32:14,389 --> 00:32:10,960
if you read my stories they're totally

872
00:32:16,389 --> 00:32:14,399
void of speculation um that's not what

873
00:32:19,350 --> 00:32:16,399
i'm really engaged with you know i for

874
00:32:21,509 --> 00:32:19,360
me it's a matter of presenting uh you

875
00:32:23,509 --> 00:32:21,519
know declassified records and interviews

876
00:32:25,909 --> 00:32:23,519
with military personnel you know

877
00:32:27,509 --> 00:32:25,919
government officials etc in order to

878
00:32:30,470 --> 00:32:27,519
just help establish the fact that there

879
00:32:32,549 --> 00:32:30,480
is a very real mystery that's alive and

880
00:32:34,310 --> 00:32:32,559
well on our planet i leave it to more

881
00:32:36,630 --> 00:32:34,320
scientific minds than me to come up with

882
00:32:38,470 --> 00:32:36,640
those answers uh but for now i'm very

883
00:32:40,630 --> 00:32:38,480
content to shed light on that mystery

884
00:32:43,029 --> 00:32:40,640
and find data and i just want to bring

885
00:32:44,630 --> 00:32:43,039
up one other thing that um to your

886
00:32:48,549 --> 00:32:44,640
previous question about information

887
00:32:50,789 --> 00:32:48,559
being shared you know um canada the us

888
00:32:52,549 --> 00:32:50,799
australia new zealand the uk we're all

889
00:32:55,110 --> 00:32:52,559
tied into something called the

890
00:32:57,190 --> 00:32:55,120
the five eyes alliance which allows for

891
00:32:59,029 --> 00:32:57,200
intelligence sharing um

892
00:33:00,470 --> 00:32:59,039
you know between these english uh

893
00:33:02,230 --> 00:33:00,480
language countries

894
00:33:03,590 --> 00:33:02,240
and

895
00:33:06,230 --> 00:33:03,600
you know while i haven't found any

896
00:33:08,549 --> 00:33:06,240
evidence that there's been uh uap

897
00:33:11,190 --> 00:33:08,559
briefings or uap material brought

898
00:33:14,070 --> 00:33:11,200
through the five eyes organization

899
00:33:16,230 --> 00:33:14,080
you know it stands to reason that there

900
00:33:18,549 --> 00:33:16,240
would be communication on the topic

901
00:33:20,950 --> 00:33:18,559
through five eyes because you know this

902
00:33:22,389 --> 00:33:20,960
is something that the us military

903
00:33:24,070 --> 00:33:22,399
and you know members of the us

904
00:33:25,909 --> 00:33:24,080
governments have been very outspoken

905
00:33:28,630 --> 00:33:25,919
about as being a potential defense and

906
00:33:30,389 --> 00:33:28,640
security issue i would find it shocking

907
00:33:33,269 --> 00:33:30,399
if that information had not been

908
00:33:35,750 --> 00:33:33,279
conveyed to u.s allies like canada and

909
00:33:37,350 --> 00:33:35,760
the uk i i think that information

910
00:33:39,590 --> 00:33:37,360
sharing is happening it stands for

911
00:33:41,110 --> 00:33:39,600
reason unfortunately i can't like hold

912
00:33:42,710 --> 00:33:41,120
up a piece of paper and say you know

913
00:33:43,830 --> 00:33:42,720
this proves it but

914
00:33:46,310 --> 00:33:43,840
uh

915
00:33:48,710 --> 00:33:46,320
it stands to reason that you know our

916
00:33:50,149 --> 00:33:48,720
governments uh are a little more

917
00:33:51,590 --> 00:33:50,159
integrated and a little more

918
00:33:53,269 --> 00:33:51,600
knowledgeable about the subject than

919
00:33:55,190 --> 00:33:53,279
they're letting on

920
00:33:57,269 --> 00:33:55,200
yeah from a uk point of view a peek

921
00:33:59,430 --> 00:33:57,279
behind the curtain here folks a part of

922
00:34:02,070 --> 00:33:59,440
a group uap media uk that people will

923
00:34:03,909 --> 00:34:02,080
know about um and we were talking in our

924
00:34:05,830 --> 00:34:03,919
on our private chat yesterday that there

925
00:34:07,909 --> 00:34:05,840
was our questions for the uk parliament

926
00:34:10,950 --> 00:34:07,919
page had been put up

927
00:34:13,750 --> 00:34:10,960
and one of the local mps had asked about

928
00:34:15,750 --> 00:34:13,760
uap incursions and were there any data

929
00:34:17,190 --> 00:34:15,760
being shared from the united states on

930
00:34:19,669 --> 00:34:17,200
these classified briefings when i'm

931
00:34:21,909 --> 00:34:19,679
hearing about and baroness goldie who

932
00:34:23,669 --> 00:34:21,919
deals in some aspects of that i can't

933
00:34:25,510 --> 00:34:23,679
remember her exact position here in the

934
00:34:27,669 --> 00:34:25,520
in the uk government

935
00:34:29,270 --> 00:34:27,679
she had previously laughed off this

936
00:34:30,869 --> 00:34:29,280
subject live in parliament when

937
00:34:32,069 --> 00:34:30,879
questioned about it no interest

938
00:34:34,230 --> 00:34:32,079
whatsoever

939
00:34:35,669 --> 00:34:34,240
on the surface anyway but are

940
00:34:37,909 --> 00:34:35,679
some of my colleagues i don't

941
00:34:39,589 --> 00:34:37,919
necessarily subscribe to this saw her

942
00:34:41,669 --> 00:34:39,599
answer yesterday online where she

943
00:34:43,510 --> 00:34:41,679
mentioned that they wouldn't talk about

944
00:34:45,669 --> 00:34:43,520
any classified information that had been

945
00:34:47,510 --> 00:34:45,679
shared as a positive that there was a

946
00:34:50,629 --> 00:34:47,520
potential discussion being had about

947
00:34:52,149 --> 00:34:50,639
uaps i think personally she was just

948
00:34:54,069 --> 00:34:52,159
answering the notion that anything

949
00:34:55,750 --> 00:34:54,079
classified obviously wouldn't be

950
00:34:57,990 --> 00:34:55,760
discussed so there was no conversation

951
00:35:00,630 --> 00:34:58,000
to be had but like you say in terms of

952
00:35:02,630 --> 00:35:00,640
the uk if that's any sign of progress

953
00:35:04,710 --> 00:35:02,640
then you of take it because that's what

954
00:35:06,150 --> 00:35:04,720
we're kind of scrapping about for just

955
00:35:08,069 --> 00:35:06,160
now and like you say the five eyes

956
00:35:10,310 --> 00:35:08,079
agreement you would have to think even

957
00:35:12,230 --> 00:35:10,320
if it was being led by the us

958
00:35:14,310 --> 00:35:12,240
there has to be some sort of information

959
00:35:15,430 --> 00:35:14,320
exchange going going back and forward

960
00:35:16,950 --> 00:35:15,440
there

961
00:35:19,430 --> 00:35:16,960
i wanted to ask him and this is one of

962
00:35:20,870 --> 00:35:19,440
the listener questions from gnosis

963
00:35:22,870 --> 00:35:20,880
daniel's only recently started

964
00:35:24,230 --> 00:35:22,880
investigating the topic yet has managed

965
00:35:25,349 --> 00:35:24,240
to uncover a whole lot of new

966
00:35:26,950 --> 00:35:25,359
information

967
00:35:29,109 --> 00:35:26,960
does daniel believe there's a lot more

968
00:35:31,829 --> 00:35:29,119
sitting on the shelf just waiting to be

969
00:35:33,990 --> 00:35:31,839
unearthed has uap reality being held

970
00:35:36,069 --> 00:35:34,000
back not so much by cover-up but by the

971
00:35:37,910 --> 00:35:36,079
fact that historically journalists have

972
00:35:40,390 --> 00:35:37,920
simply failed to look properly and ask

973
00:35:41,510 --> 00:35:40,400
the right people the right questions

974
00:35:43,589 --> 00:35:41,520
uh

975
00:35:45,589 --> 00:35:43,599
short answer yes and yes

976
00:35:47,430 --> 00:35:45,599
uh there's a lot more sitting on my

977
00:35:49,270 --> 00:35:47,440
shelf personally that i've yet to put

978
00:35:51,990 --> 00:35:49,280
out there and write about and so

979
00:35:54,310 --> 00:35:52,000
more stories to come from me um yeah you

980
00:35:56,550 --> 00:35:54,320
know like i said when i

981
00:35:58,230 --> 00:35:56,560
especially in canada uh

982
00:36:00,069 --> 00:35:58,240
you know journalists mainstream

983
00:36:01,030 --> 00:36:00,079
journalists have not touched the subject

984
00:36:03,349 --> 00:36:01,040
um

985
00:36:04,790 --> 00:36:03,359
you know when i started doing it i as i

986
00:36:07,109 --> 00:36:04,800
said i've been working as a journalist

987
00:36:08,790 --> 00:36:07,119
for over a decade i spent a lot of time

988
00:36:11,430 --> 00:36:08,800
doing international reporting under

989
00:36:14,150 --> 00:36:11,440
southeast asia and investigations i was

990
00:36:16,950 --> 00:36:14,160
basically you know applying journalistic

991
00:36:18,710 --> 00:36:16,960
practices of investigative journalism

992
00:36:22,069 --> 00:36:18,720
you know to this topic as i would with

993
00:36:24,390 --> 00:36:22,079
any other topic and um i i think in

994
00:36:25,829 --> 00:36:24,400
journalism in canada you know this this

995
00:36:27,750 --> 00:36:25,839
data has been there this data's been

996
00:36:29,510 --> 00:36:27,760
sitting there for two decades i think

997
00:36:31,510 --> 00:36:29,520
it's just you know

998
00:36:34,150 --> 00:36:31,520
the right person hasn't right asked the

999
00:36:35,990 --> 00:36:34,160
right questions and even when i first

1000
00:36:38,390 --> 00:36:36,000
started filing my access information

1001
00:36:40,870 --> 00:36:38,400
requests as i mentioned you know i got

1002
00:36:42,550 --> 00:36:40,880
these 290 pages but the first time i

1003
00:36:44,150 --> 00:36:42,560
asked for them they told me to to look

1004
00:36:46,230 --> 00:36:44,160
elsewhere that they didn't have them and

1005
00:36:47,190 --> 00:36:46,240
it was because you know one thing you

1006
00:36:49,670 --> 00:36:47,200
have to

1007
00:36:52,710 --> 00:36:49,680
in any if you're any sort of researcher

1008
00:36:54,390 --> 00:36:52,720
you can't take no for an answer and uh

1009
00:36:56,069 --> 00:36:54,400
you can't you should never be afraid of

1010
00:36:57,990 --> 00:36:56,079
asking the same question

1011
00:37:00,790 --> 00:36:58,000
multiple times in multiple different

1012
00:37:02,710 --> 00:37:00,800
ways expecting no as an answer you know

1013
00:37:05,270 --> 00:37:02,720
um

1014
00:37:07,190 --> 00:37:05,280
so all this is is just to say you know

1015
00:37:10,390 --> 00:37:07,200
no way you know i think there were ufo

1016
00:37:11,349 --> 00:37:10,400
researchers like people ufologist people

1017
00:37:13,270 --> 00:37:11,359
who were

1018
00:37:15,670 --> 00:37:13,280
looking at this material i i've met

1019
00:37:17,589 --> 00:37:15,680
several uh you know citizen ufo

1020
00:37:19,190 --> 00:37:17,599
researchers who had been able to pull

1021
00:37:21,510 --> 00:37:19,200
excellent data through our freedom of

1022
00:37:23,589 --> 00:37:21,520
information request and then couldn't

1023
00:37:25,670 --> 00:37:23,599
get anyone in the media to pay attention

1024
00:37:27,829 --> 00:37:25,680
to it you know like i've had these

1025
00:37:29,430 --> 00:37:27,839
conversations with folks i i came across

1026
00:37:31,750 --> 00:37:29,440
this material this type of material

1027
00:37:33,270 --> 00:37:31,760
independently and uh you know when i

1028
00:37:35,030 --> 00:37:33,280
first started getting returns it just

1029
00:37:37,030 --> 00:37:35,040
inspired me to keep digging harder and

1030
00:37:39,190 --> 00:37:37,040
harder you know realizing that there is

1031
00:37:41,109 --> 00:37:39,200
stuff here uh you know when those first

1032
00:37:43,670 --> 00:37:41,119
access to information requests arrived

1033
00:37:45,349 --> 00:37:43,680
in my in my inbox i was just i was

1034
00:37:47,910 --> 00:37:45,359
staggered you know i had filed the

1035
00:37:50,950 --> 00:37:47,920
request expecting nothing and then hear

1036
00:37:52,950 --> 00:37:50,960
the stuff came in um so you know i i

1037
00:37:54,870 --> 00:37:52,960
think i'm hoping that people uh

1038
00:37:57,190 --> 00:37:54,880
mainstream journalists in canada and

1039
00:37:59,829 --> 00:37:57,200
around the world uh you know can start

1040
00:38:01,910 --> 00:37:59,839
looking into the archives and records of

1041
00:38:04,470 --> 00:38:01,920
their own countries because you know

1042
00:38:07,990 --> 00:38:04,480
this is not uh unique to the united

1043
00:38:10,790 --> 00:38:08,000
states or canada uh this people see

1044
00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:10,800
unusual things around the globe

1045
00:38:13,829 --> 00:38:11,680
and

1046
00:38:16,470 --> 00:38:13,839
it's just sort of taken you know it's

1047
00:38:18,069 --> 00:38:16,480
unfortunate but like some of the data i

1048
00:38:20,550 --> 00:38:18,079
pulled i i that i've pulled through

1049
00:38:22,950 --> 00:38:20,560
access to information requests i've had

1050
00:38:25,670 --> 00:38:22,960
canadian ufo researchers contact me

1051
00:38:29,030 --> 00:38:25,680
after publication and say hey i was able

1052
00:38:30,550 --> 00:38:29,040
to get the same documents you know like

1053
00:38:32,870 --> 00:38:30,560
before you even started writing on this

1054
00:38:34,310 --> 00:38:32,880
subject and they can prove it you know

1055
00:38:36,470 --> 00:38:34,320
the data's been there people have been

1056
00:38:38,790 --> 00:38:36,480
looking unfortunately those who can

1057
00:38:40,950 --> 00:38:38,800
convey that information to you know

1058
00:38:42,630 --> 00:38:40,960
large audiences like me working in

1059
00:38:44,950 --> 00:38:42,640
journalism they haven't been looking at

1060
00:38:46,550 --> 00:38:44,960
this stuff uh i hope i hope my work

1061
00:38:48,310 --> 00:38:46,560
inspires other people to keep digging

1062
00:38:49,750 --> 00:38:48,320
because you know i'm sure there's things

1063
00:38:52,310 --> 00:38:49,760
i'm missing i'm sure there's questions

1064
00:38:53,990 --> 00:38:52,320
i'm not asking um it would be great to

1065
00:38:55,829 --> 00:38:54,000
have have more people join me in this

1066
00:38:57,750 --> 00:38:55,839
hunt here in canada

1067
00:38:59,430 --> 00:38:57,760
one of those citizen investigators would

1068
00:39:01,670 --> 00:38:59,440
be chris rutkowski

1069
00:39:04,069 --> 00:39:01,680
whose book ufo's declassified canada's

1070
00:39:05,349 --> 00:39:04,079
ufo's declassified bigger pardon is

1071
00:39:06,950 --> 00:39:05,359
coming out at the end of the month and

1072
00:39:08,470 --> 00:39:06,960
i'm hoping i'm just waiting on a date

1073
00:39:10,630 --> 00:39:08,480
being arranged through his publications

1074
00:39:12,790 --> 00:39:10,640
but having him on the podcast this got

1075
00:39:14,390 --> 00:39:12,800
to discuss just that the book and and

1076
00:39:15,589 --> 00:39:14,400
that kind of background work he's done

1077
00:39:17,190 --> 00:39:15,599
as well

1078
00:39:18,790 --> 00:39:17,200
you mentioned you've got things on the

1079
00:39:21,030 --> 00:39:18,800
shelf that you want to you want to write

1080
00:39:23,030 --> 00:39:21,040
about is there anything that now you're

1081
00:39:24,950 --> 00:39:23,040
getting your teeth into the ufo subject

1082
00:39:26,870 --> 00:39:24,960
for for over a year that you would

1083
00:39:28,790 --> 00:39:26,880
really like to to go you've obviously

1084
00:39:30,230 --> 00:39:28,800
looked at encounters i suppose there's

1085
00:39:32,550 --> 00:39:30,240
only so many articles you can write

1086
00:39:34,630 --> 00:39:32,560
about lights in the sky are there are

1087
00:39:36,630 --> 00:39:34,640
other areas of the ufo phenomenon like

1088
00:39:38,710 --> 00:39:36,640
abductions crash retrievals that really

1089
00:39:41,190 --> 00:39:38,720
interest you and you're just waiting for

1090
00:39:41,670 --> 00:39:41,200
the right time or the right

1091
00:39:43,270 --> 00:39:41,680
to back information

1092
00:39:45,829 --> 00:39:43,280
to chris for a second i just want to

1093
00:39:48,150 --> 00:39:45,839
bring something up about chris um

1094
00:39:51,430 --> 00:39:48,160
chris chris is a

1095
00:39:53,829 --> 00:39:51,440
he's a winnipeg based uh ufologist he's

1096
00:39:55,910 --> 00:39:53,839
been working on the subject for i guess

1097
00:39:58,390 --> 00:39:55,920
over 30 years

1098
00:40:01,829 --> 00:39:58,400
he produces an annual

1099
00:40:04,309 --> 00:40:01,839
ufo survey that basically tries to

1100
00:40:07,829 --> 00:40:04,319
collect you know all ufo sightings that

1101
00:40:09,030 --> 00:40:07,839
happened in canada and you know

1102
00:40:11,109 --> 00:40:09,040
interestingly you know through my

1103
00:40:14,470 --> 00:40:11,119
research i found out that

1104
00:40:17,030 --> 00:40:14,480
chris had been receiving ufo reports

1105
00:40:19,349 --> 00:40:17,040
directly from transportation officials

1106
00:40:20,390 --> 00:40:19,359
and the canadian air force for about two

1107
00:40:23,030 --> 00:40:20,400
decades

1108
00:40:24,390 --> 00:40:23,040
uh he had basically found out that you

1109
00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:24,400
know they weren't doing

1110
00:40:28,790 --> 00:40:26,400
anything with them and

1111
00:40:30,550 --> 00:40:28,800
they you know had an arrangement where

1112
00:40:32,710 --> 00:40:30,560
he was receiving this stuff you know

1113
00:40:34,950 --> 00:40:32,720
unredacted without having to go through

1114
00:40:37,910 --> 00:40:34,960
the access to information system uh for

1115
00:40:39,670 --> 00:40:37,920
his research which which was you know

1116
00:40:41,750 --> 00:40:39,680
quite fascinating i think i have one in

1117
00:40:43,670 --> 00:40:41,760
front of me you know there's ufo

1118
00:40:45,349 --> 00:40:43,680
procedures from the canadian air force

1119
00:40:47,430 --> 00:40:45,359
i'll cover up his email address but it

1120
00:40:50,150 --> 00:40:47,440
says you know send them to chris

1121
00:40:51,829 --> 00:40:50,160
send them to chris um so you know i i

1122
00:40:55,510 --> 00:40:51,839
just want to emphasize that the chris

1123
00:40:58,069 --> 00:40:55,520
has played a very important role in uh

1124
00:40:59,910 --> 00:40:58,079
in collecting data on the subject um

1125
00:41:00,710 --> 00:40:59,920
back to you're actually the question

1126
00:41:03,109 --> 00:41:00,720
about

1127
00:41:04,790 --> 00:41:03,119
do i want my interests to

1128
00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:04,800
you know there's a bit of a fine line to

1129
00:41:09,349 --> 00:41:06,640
walk here it's it's early days in

1130
00:41:11,910 --> 00:41:09,359
canadian media and widespread acceptance

1131
00:41:16,230 --> 00:41:11,920
of the veracity of this topic

1132
00:41:19,430 --> 00:41:16,240
and i i'm acutely aware of the fact that

1133
00:41:20,390 --> 00:41:19,440
my ability to tell

1134
00:41:22,309 --> 00:41:20,400
these stories

1135
00:41:25,750 --> 00:41:22,319
in mainstream outlets for mainstream

1136
00:41:28,670 --> 00:41:25,760
audiences is contingent on

1137
00:41:31,510 --> 00:41:28,680
my sticking to

1138
00:41:34,870 --> 00:41:31,520
verifiable information right

1139
00:41:38,230 --> 00:41:34,880
documents on the record interviews

1140
00:41:42,069 --> 00:41:38,240
you know military procedures etc i i'm

1141
00:41:44,230 --> 00:41:42,079
very concerned that if i

1142
00:41:46,870 --> 00:41:44,240
deviate from that path

1143
00:41:49,910 --> 00:41:46,880
and begin looking into you know or at

1144
00:41:52,790 --> 00:41:49,920
least begin writing about uh you know

1145
00:41:55,829 --> 00:41:52,800
experiences experiencers alleged

1146
00:41:59,589 --> 00:41:55,839
retrievals it will inherently negatively

1147
00:42:01,349 --> 00:41:59,599
impact my ability to convey

1148
00:42:03,349 --> 00:42:01,359
you know the verifiable information to

1149
00:42:05,589 --> 00:42:03,359
mainstream audiences do you hear me

1150
00:42:07,349 --> 00:42:05,599
so like i i have i don't have a personal

1151
00:42:08,630 --> 00:42:07,359
interest in those in those types of

1152
00:42:10,550 --> 00:42:08,640
narratives

1153
00:42:12,870 --> 00:42:10,560
but you know at least from my

1154
00:42:16,309 --> 00:42:12,880
perspective and and the sort of research

1155
00:42:20,069 --> 00:42:16,319
i'm doing uh in in terms of canada i

1156
00:42:22,230 --> 00:42:20,079
have yet to find too many cases or data

1157
00:42:23,829 --> 00:42:22,240
that's you know verifiable that relates

1158
00:42:26,390 --> 00:42:23,839
to those types

1159
00:42:28,950 --> 00:42:26,400
of cases of experiencers alleged

1160
00:42:30,710 --> 00:42:28,960
abductions you know retrieved materials

1161
00:42:33,589 --> 00:42:30,720
et cetera in terms of in the

1162
00:42:36,630 --> 00:42:33,599
contemporary canadian record uh there

1163
00:42:39,109 --> 00:42:36,640
are not official records i have found

1164
00:42:40,710 --> 00:42:39,119
that relate to that so that that's gonna

1165
00:42:43,030 --> 00:42:40,720
you know that for me that means that

1166
00:42:44,790 --> 00:42:43,040
it's not something i'm gonna go a path

1167
00:42:46,870 --> 00:42:44,800
i'm going to go down i certainly am

1168
00:42:49,270 --> 00:42:46,880
interested and i read those things but

1169
00:42:51,190 --> 00:42:49,280
you know unfortunately unfortunately

1170
00:42:53,829 --> 00:42:51,200
there's so little data when it comes to

1171
00:42:55,990 --> 00:42:53,839
those types of cases and you know it's

1172
00:42:58,630 --> 00:42:56,000
so important to be able to prevent to

1173
00:43:00,870 --> 00:42:58,640
present verifiable information you know

1174
00:43:03,589 --> 00:43:00,880
that's why with the stories i put out

1175
00:43:06,309 --> 00:43:03,599
there every single story for the most

1176
00:43:09,109 --> 00:43:06,319
part includes pdfs with all of my source

1177
00:43:10,790 --> 00:43:09,119
material um so there's no mystery right

1178
00:43:13,109 --> 00:43:10,800
so there's no questioning where this

1179
00:43:14,870 --> 00:43:13,119
stuff is coming from um

1180
00:43:16,950 --> 00:43:14,880
unfortunately you know these sorts of

1181
00:43:18,950 --> 00:43:16,960
cases that you bring up it's just so

1182
00:43:20,550 --> 00:43:18,960
much anecdotal information and while

1183
00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:20,560
certain ones are very compelling you

1184
00:43:25,990 --> 00:43:23,040
know for example like the events of

1185
00:43:27,990 --> 00:43:26,000
rural zimbabwe um

1186
00:43:29,670 --> 00:43:28,000
you know without the

1187
00:43:31,910 --> 00:43:29,680
without the additional verifiable

1188
00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:31,920
records to support it it's hard for me

1189
00:43:34,950 --> 00:43:33,359
to convey those

1190
00:43:36,069 --> 00:43:34,960
those types of stories to a mainstream

1191
00:43:37,430 --> 00:43:36,079
audience

1192
00:43:39,030 --> 00:43:37,440
yeah i can appreciate why you want to

1193
00:43:41,349 --> 00:43:39,040
trade lightly because you go from being

1194
00:43:43,349 --> 00:43:41,359
someone presenting an incredible subject

1195
00:43:46,230 --> 00:43:43,359
but the verifiable facts the evidence

1196
00:43:47,589 --> 00:43:46,240
the data to jumping the shark almost to

1197
00:43:49,670 --> 00:43:47,599
being the guy who all of a sudden has

1198
00:43:52,069 --> 00:43:49,680
talked about it talking about recovered

1199
00:43:55,030 --> 00:43:52,079
alien bodies from the shag harbor event

1200
00:43:56,870 --> 00:43:55,040
that one guy said he saw and you know it

1201
00:43:58,069 --> 00:43:56,880
starts to snowball into that and you

1202
00:43:59,670 --> 00:43:58,079
lose your

1203
00:44:02,069 --> 00:43:59,680
your respect amongst the colleagues and

1204
00:44:04,069 --> 00:44:02,079
also your platforms to get that larger

1205
00:44:06,230 --> 00:44:04,079
message out when the time comes so i i

1206
00:44:08,309 --> 00:44:06,240
can appreciate that i i think but you

1207
00:44:10,390 --> 00:44:08,319
know for anyone who's engaged in

1208
00:44:13,190 --> 00:44:10,400
producing research and material on the

1209
00:44:15,270 --> 00:44:13,200
subject you know we all are sort of

1210
00:44:18,150 --> 00:44:15,280
playing a part in a greater movement

1211
00:44:20,550 --> 00:44:18,160
towards disclosure you know i i'm aware

1212
00:44:22,790 --> 00:44:20,560
of of the lane i want to take which is

1213
00:44:24,630 --> 00:44:22,800
you know sticking to these declassified

1214
00:44:26,950 --> 00:44:24,640
records and interviews with officials

1215
00:44:29,190 --> 00:44:26,960
you know because that's that's what i

1216
00:44:31,750 --> 00:44:29,200
can do to contribute you know hopefully

1217
00:44:33,349 --> 00:44:31,760
to a broader movement of disclosure and

1218
00:44:35,589 --> 00:44:33,359
there's other platforms that i think are

1219
00:44:37,750 --> 00:44:35,599
much better suited uh than me in my

1220
00:44:39,670 --> 00:44:37,760
writing to tell the tor those other

1221
00:44:41,270 --> 00:44:39,680
sorts of stories

1222
00:44:43,910 --> 00:44:41,280
you mentioned just before and i've got

1223
00:44:45,430 --> 00:44:43,920
one final question and that no

1224
00:44:47,190 --> 00:44:45,440
researcher or journalist should ever be

1225
00:44:48,870 --> 00:44:47,200
scared to ask the same question again

1226
00:44:50,550 --> 00:44:48,880
and get no for an answer or you know be

1227
00:44:52,069 --> 00:44:50,560
shot down and you never know so i'm

1228
00:44:54,230 --> 00:44:52,079
going to ask you the same question very

1229
00:44:55,910 --> 00:44:54,240
similar to what i asked you before uh

1230
00:44:58,630 --> 00:44:55,920
around your opinion but from one of the

1231
00:45:01,190 --> 00:44:58,640
listeners and see if you how you feel so

1232
00:45:03,190 --> 00:45:01,200
as the evidence this is from walker as

1233
00:45:04,550 --> 00:45:03,200
the evidence daniel has seen enough to

1234
00:45:07,670 --> 00:45:04,560
convince him we are dealing with a

1235
00:45:09,190 --> 00:45:07,680
non-human intelligence

1236
00:45:11,910 --> 00:45:09,200
the evidence that i've seen has been

1237
00:45:14,150 --> 00:45:11,920
enough to convince me that prosaic

1238
00:45:15,510 --> 00:45:14,160
explanations don't work for some of

1239
00:45:17,670 --> 00:45:15,520
these cases

1240
00:45:19,910 --> 00:45:17,680
as to whether or not that's a non-human

1241
00:45:21,670 --> 00:45:19,920
intelligence i personally

1242
00:45:23,589 --> 00:45:21,680
i i don't have the data to answer that

1243
00:45:25,750 --> 00:45:23,599
question you know and one thing i've

1244
00:45:28,390 --> 00:45:25,760
brought up in other interviews too is

1245
00:45:30,150 --> 00:45:28,400
is even if this all proves to be

1246
00:45:32,950 --> 00:45:30,160
human-made technology i think the

1247
00:45:35,109 --> 00:45:32,960
implications for our species in society

1248
00:45:37,349 --> 00:45:35,119
are huge you know of course you see

1249
00:45:39,190 --> 00:45:37,359
these things reports of things traveling

1250
00:45:41,270 --> 00:45:39,200
faster than the speed of sound and

1251
00:45:44,470 --> 00:45:41,280
making right angle turns without slowing

1252
00:45:47,030 --> 00:45:44,480
down you know to me that shows that

1253
00:45:49,990 --> 00:45:47,040
on this planet there perhaps is a

1254
00:45:52,309 --> 00:45:50,000
technology uh that you know you know if

1255
00:45:54,390 --> 00:45:52,319
this is all human-made it would it would

1256
00:45:56,870 --> 00:45:54,400
mean that somebody has created a new

1257
00:45:58,950 --> 00:45:56,880
form of propulsion as well as uh you

1258
00:46:00,870 --> 00:45:58,960
know perhaps harnessed a new energy

1259
00:46:02,550 --> 00:46:00,880
source that could eliminate our

1260
00:46:04,550 --> 00:46:02,560
dependence on that could potentially

1261
00:46:06,790 --> 00:46:04,560
eliminate our dependence on fossil fuels

1262
00:46:08,069 --> 00:46:06,800
you know which are choking our planet so

1263
00:46:09,910 --> 00:46:08,079
even if this is all human-made

1264
00:46:12,950 --> 00:46:09,920
technology the implications for our

1265
00:46:14,630 --> 00:46:12,960
society and species are huge i mean it's

1266
00:46:17,270 --> 00:46:14,640
it's you know it's possible we're

1267
00:46:20,069 --> 00:46:17,280
dealing with another intelligence but

1268
00:46:21,670 --> 00:46:20,079
you know nothing i i don't have you know

1269
00:46:23,670 --> 00:46:21,680
that evidence

1270
00:46:26,950 --> 00:46:23,680
to say that with certainty and frankly

1271
00:46:29,910 --> 00:46:26,960
i'm pretty skeptical of anyone who does

1272
00:46:32,550 --> 00:46:29,920
have definitive answers in this field uh

1273
00:46:35,109 --> 00:46:32,560
to me you know the the volume of

1274
00:46:37,430 --> 00:46:35,119
research i've done just indicates that

1275
00:46:39,349 --> 00:46:37,440
we have a mystery

1276
00:46:41,750 --> 00:46:39,359
that that we ought to take seriously to

1277
00:46:43,030 --> 00:46:41,760
solve you know whether it what the

1278
00:46:45,510 --> 00:46:43,040
answer is

1279
00:46:47,349 --> 00:46:45,520
i don't know but i'm really excited to

1280
00:46:49,829 --> 00:46:47,359
you know find out and i hope that's

1281
00:46:51,190 --> 00:46:49,839
something we we learn in our lifetime

1282
00:46:53,109 --> 00:46:51,200
that's a really nice place to start

1283
00:46:54,790 --> 00:46:53,119
wrapping up daniel um can i just ask

1284
00:46:56,630 --> 00:46:54,800
finally what's next for you what you're

1285
00:46:58,230 --> 00:46:56,640
going to be working on and how can

1286
00:47:01,510 --> 00:46:58,240
people get in touch and follow your work

1287
00:47:04,069 --> 00:47:01,520
as well yeah absolutely um i have

1288
00:47:05,670 --> 00:47:04,079
listen there's a lot more uh documents i

1289
00:47:07,349 --> 00:47:05,680
have on my shelf that i'm going through

1290
00:47:09,109 --> 00:47:07,359
in writing about

1291
00:47:10,790 --> 00:47:09,119
and pretty much everything i get i put

1292
00:47:13,270 --> 00:47:10,800
out into the world so

1293
00:47:15,510 --> 00:47:13,280
there's more stories yet to come

1294
00:47:17,910 --> 00:47:15,520
i believe we you should see a story from

1295
00:47:21,270 --> 00:47:17,920
me involving uh

1296
00:47:22,710 --> 00:47:21,280
a very interesting witness a a uniformed

1297
00:47:26,069 --> 00:47:22,720
witness here in canada that should be

1298
00:47:28,829 --> 00:47:26,079
coming soon you can follow my work i'm

1299
00:47:31,670 --> 00:47:28,839
my personal website is

1300
00:47:33,910 --> 00:47:31,680
danielotis.ca i post all my stories and

1301
00:47:35,670 --> 00:47:33,920
podcast appearances and stuff there i'm

1302
00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:35,680
very active on twitter or you can find

1303
00:47:39,910 --> 00:47:38,400
me at d s otis

1304
00:47:41,829 --> 00:47:39,920
that's a great place to follow me

1305
00:47:43,829 --> 00:47:41,839
because for example let's say i write a

1306
00:47:45,190 --> 00:47:43,839
a story about a case and then a few

1307
00:47:47,109 --> 00:47:45,200
months later

1308
00:47:48,630 --> 00:47:47,119
additional declassified records come in

1309
00:47:49,910 --> 00:47:48,640
well i'm not going to write a whole new

1310
00:47:51,990 --> 00:47:49,920
story based on these additional

1311
00:47:54,150 --> 00:47:52,000
documents so i usually post stuff like

1312
00:47:55,670 --> 00:47:54,160
that onto twitter so my website

1313
00:47:57,910 --> 00:47:55,680
daniellotus.ca

1314
00:47:59,670 --> 00:47:57,920
follow me on twitter at dsotis you can

1315
00:48:01,190 --> 00:47:59,680
find me on other social media although

1316
00:48:02,870 --> 00:48:01,200
i'm less active and

1317
00:48:04,630 --> 00:48:02,880
there will be more and bigger stories

1318
00:48:05,750 --> 00:48:04,640
yet to come i hope

1319
00:48:07,510 --> 00:48:05,760
all those links will be in the

1320
00:48:09,030 --> 00:48:07,520
description and the website has the

1321
00:48:10,549 --> 00:48:09,040
links to all the articles as well that

1322
00:48:13,030 --> 00:48:10,559
we've talked about including the one on

1323
00:48:15,270 --> 00:48:13,040
chriskovsky and obviously the 20 years

1324
00:48:16,630 --> 00:48:15,280
of ufo sightings as well daniel it's

1325
00:48:17,990 --> 00:48:16,640
been great having you on and look

1326
00:48:19,589 --> 00:48:18,000
forward to hosting you again hopefully

1327
00:48:21,349 --> 00:48:19,599
in the future hey thanks so much for

1328
00:48:23,430 --> 00:48:21,359
having me this is fun

1329
00:48:25,349 --> 00:48:23,440
that is all for this week's show thank

1330
00:48:27,430 --> 00:48:25,359
you very much for listening please

1331
00:48:30,069 --> 00:48:27,440
remember to leave the podcaster review

1332
00:48:32,390 --> 00:48:30,079
on your chosen platform you can like

1333
00:48:34,309 --> 00:48:32,400
retweet and subscribe that would all be

1334
00:48:36,470 --> 00:48:34,319
very much appreciated the shows are

1335
00:48:37,990 --> 00:48:36,480
being uploaded onto youtube as we speak

1336
00:48:40,470 --> 00:48:38,000
more and more you can sign up at

1337
00:48:43,190 --> 00:48:40,480
patreon.com forward slash that ufo

1338
00:48:45,430 --> 00:48:43,200
podcast to access shows ad free as well

1339
00:48:48,230 --> 00:48:45,440
please get in touch on twitter facebook

1340
00:48:51,430 --> 00:48:48,240
instagram that ufo podcast of course on

1341
00:48:53,510 --> 00:48:51,440
twitter it's at ufouapam

1342
00:48:56,580 --> 00:48:53,520
and again folks as always keep looking

1343
00:49:17,589 --> 00:48:56,590
up you never know what you might see

1344
00:49:17,599 --> 00:49:23,690
i don't think he expected me

1345
00:49:23,700 --> 00:49:32,630
[Music]

1346
00:49:57,190 --> 00:49:34,150
i can't imagine how it could have been

1347
00:50:00,309 --> 00:49:58,950
out my boys they thought this was noise

1348
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:00,319
they thought it was a dream they thought

1349
00:50:11,990 --> 00:50:02,770
it was my toys

1350
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:21,349
[Music]

1351
00:50:31,829 --> 00:50:23,230
over there

1352
00:51:04,069 --> 00:50:31,839
[Music]

1353
00:51:10,900 --> 00:51:04,079
it wasn't a tic tac and not quite a

1354
00:51:41,970 --> 00:51:40,309
[Music]

1355
00:51:52,470 --> 00:51:41,980
so